i have always been somewhat amazed that the jw and general christian view on both these events only focus on the supernaturel abilities of chirst to provide to the hungry mutitudes.
this is then used as evidence that he will and is feeding and providing for all on earth and thus is an indication of his loving and giving nature.. as a simple and dismissive explaination of the factual material contained in both events and the complete disregard of the fact that the gospels clearly state that the events have a far more significant meaning that even the twelve appear not to understand, and is never explained by christ, i am of the view that these two events and those which are associated with them must hold a much higher significance than any christrain religion has ever given them, due to their lack of understanding also.. has anyone ever looked at these events more closely?
has anyone on this ever come up with an explaination with to regard to the no of loafs, no of fish, and the no of baskets of fragments, and also their timing in the year and week when they occured?.
DD- Are you suggesting then that the numbers and details written into these passages have no purpose and are just irrelevant? Seems to me that the four goseples which carry the events of the 5000 must view it with the importance of the crucifixion, and therefore it has much more significants than we tend to give it credit.
Is the surface story just milk for the babes?
i have always been somewhat amazed that the jw and general christian view on both these events only focus on the supernaturel abilities of chirst to provide to the hungry mutitudes.
this is then used as evidence that he will and is feeding and providing for all on earth and thus is an indication of his loving and giving nature.. as a simple and dismissive explaination of the factual material contained in both events and the complete disregard of the fact that the gospels clearly state that the events have a far more significant meaning that even the twelve appear not to understand, and is never explained by christ, i am of the view that these two events and those which are associated with them must hold a much higher significance than any christrain religion has ever given them, due to their lack of understanding also.. has anyone ever looked at these events more closely?
has anyone on this ever come up with an explaination with to regard to the no of loafs, no of fish, and the no of baskets of fragments, and also their timing in the year and week when they occured?.
I have always been somewhat amazed that the JW and general Christian view on both these events only focus on the supernaturel abilities of Chirst to provide to the hungry mutitudes. This is then used as evidence that he will and is feeding and providing for all on earth and thus is an indication of his loving and giving nature.
As a simple and dismissive explaination of the factual material contained in both events and the complete disregard of the fact that the gospels clearly state that the events have a far more significant meaning that even the twelve appear not to understand, and is never explained by Christ, I am of the view that these two events and those which are associated with them must hold a much higher significance than any Christrain religion has ever given them, due to their lack of understanding also.
Has anyone ever looked at these events more closely? Has anyone on this ever come up with an explaination with to regard to the No of loafs, No of fish, and the No of baskets of fragments, and also their timing in the year and week when they occured?
Please help me get my head arround these questions if you can?
BB
we all know that wts likes to distance itself from the young earth creationists, who believe in the literal 6-day creation.. so are we supposed to be something fundamentally different from the yecs?
not so much.... i did some research some time ago about what the society believes abouth the length of the creative days.
this is what i found:.
If it was 7K years in the 60/70's and 1k years in the 80/90's, according to the scharzchild equation for the change in the rate of time diolation, we should have hit heaven in 2001!!! Someone's got it wrong??
i sure as eggs know which types don't:.
creative types: to do well at a creative industry one must dedicate a lot of time to developing one's talent, and as a jw one simply doesn't have time.
since writing a story or painting a picture doesn't contribute in any way to prestudy, meetings or fs results it's considered useless anyway.
Babes who still drink milk (the bitty), and not the mature who like their meat.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001647.
has anyone checked the quote from frederic louis godet?
is it accurate?
jgnat- Both the lists only refer the males in the line, so although I agree that modern day Jews use the maternal line this does not appear to be the case in either Matthew or Luke.
Wilst Luke shows a geneology which comes from Nathan, Matthew shows it through Solomon and makes the the claim that Jeconiah was the son of Josiah. This indicates that this geneology of Joseph, whether he was Jesus' true father or not, is contrived because Jeremiah 22:28-30 "for from his offspring not a single one will have any success sitting on the throne of David and ruling anmore in Judah".
So it seems to me that the geneology of Luke is the correct one for Joseph and that Matthew's is in contridiction of God's word.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001647.
has anyone checked the quote from frederic louis godet?
is it accurate?
What copy of the text was Godet reading. The greek text states that "Jesus being son as supposed of Joseph, of Heli...etc". How can he claim that there is a " and pass immediately from Jesus to his Grandfather".
Why would the Jews have an adage in latin, I didn't think that this was a language the Jews where at all familiar with.
This geneology of Luke combined with the one of Matthew shows that Heli was also Jacob and that Jacob Heli was the father of Joseph. This sounds as if it has some connection with Genisis, Abraham,Issac, Jacob,Joseph, and Judah. Just a thought?
you all spend all your time bickering about religion and doctrine and god and evolution and atheists, not to mention all the discussion about athiests too.
you are totally ignoring an important subject.
we haven't had one fucking decent discussion of dr. who in at least a year!!!.
Just finished it was great!!!
simple question here on genesis chronology and how god counts heavenly days (jws seemingly believe in a conversion factor of 'one god day is equal to 1,000 human years', based on 2nd peter).. genesis 2:1-2 says this (niv):.
1 thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.. 2 by the seventh day god had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.
3 then god blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.. day seven was the sabbath, the day of rest from all work, specifically from engaging in creative activities (jews observe the sabbath specifically because of the words found in genesis 2:2).. however, god's not quite done creating things, since genesis continues with this, on day eight (8), the day after the sabbath:.
Hi Adamah, after your post at the top of page 2 Tammy does make a good point as she says that you were requesting answers which had to fall in line with your assumptions. In relation to the age of Adam when he die age 930 your argument assumes that the use of the die in relation to the eating of the fruit was a physical death. The Hebrew verb used here can mean a number of things, but always in conection with loss and ruin, which in some instances means loss of physical life but also loss of spirtual life, and as the context of the whole narrative is dependant on the actions of the spirit (breath) of god it is fair to define die in this case as the loss of spiritual life not physical. Therefore Adam did die on the day that he ate the friutin a spiritual sense by being cut off from God and removed from Eden, and physically died 930 years later. This is also made clear by the actions of God in producing coverings for him as this was a necessity of spiritual release for the Jews but I'll have to check up on that.
To correct myself in my previous post the 2nd narrative starts at Gen 2:4B "In the day that YHWH made the earth and skies, 5 when all the produce of the field had not yet been in the eath,". This appears to take us back to a point in the creation story before the creation of Adam/Man does it not?
I'm looking into the day for a thousand years in regard to its application to the creation.
Mark
simple question here on genesis chronology and how god counts heavenly days (jws seemingly believe in a conversion factor of 'one god day is equal to 1,000 human years', based on 2nd peter).. genesis 2:1-2 says this (niv):.
1 thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.. 2 by the seventh day god had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.
3 then god blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.. day seven was the sabbath, the day of rest from all work, specifically from engaging in creative activities (jews observe the sabbath specifically because of the words found in genesis 2:2).. however, god's not quite done creating things, since genesis continues with this, on day eight (8), the day after the sabbath:.
Sir82 has it right that there are two narratives in Genesis. According to Richard Friedman the second narrative starts at Gen 2:5 and continues through the OT upto 1Kings 2:46, althought it is interweeved with other writings. His book is title "The Hidden Book in the Bible". He is also the author of Who Wrote the Bible. Worth a read if you can find a copy.
what is the soul according to god's word?
the accurate identity of the " soul " will aid in the understanding of what " death " is.
i used to think i knew the answers, now i do not.
New Hope - Totally agree. I have been lokking into this for the last day and the subject of the use of the numerous words that mean death, dead, or die along with the other greek words which the scholars of past years have diffined that imply death due to their infered context of the text does make the whole topic a mine field.
Data dog is correct about his assocoation of death with the soul, however the breath of the soul and the wind of the spirit are in themselves very much in need of the same debate. As the topic/subject becomes so vast it is not surpiring that people do not wish to enter into it, due to either their lack of knowledge or their understanding of the size of the task.
I will try and come back tomorrow with some basics if I can get my head round the whole thing, what a great topic.
